rejones68
#1I was under the assumption that these cuffs were strictly for the FBI. Yet here is a box clearly marked Navy Type. Anyone have any input on this? Thanks, Ron J
The Forum at Handcuffs.Org
H & R Super Handcuffs
17 visible archived posts · 17 preserved total · topic ID 7327
Unknown / guest
#2Here’s another box just marked WC
ssbaldwin
#3I don’t think these cuffs were made exclusively for the FBI but were favored by them so that they could have cuffs that didn’t employ the standard generic handcuff key.
Spencer
Spencer
rejones68
#4That totally makes sense to me, but any idea why boxes would be marked differently? Aren’t all the Super cuffs the same besides some having the rail and some not? Ron J
Mark Lyons O--O Cuffs
#5Interesting labels on the above pics. Never seen those. Mine has an anchor logo.
The first model had serial numbers and no security channels for the bow to ride in.
Subsequent models had the reverse.
There were blued, nickel, and bare steel models made.
Brad Darling wrote a great article about these in one of the Handcuff Annuals.
Chain lengths were varied too.
The first model had serial numbers and no security channels for the bow to ride in.
Subsequent models had the reverse.
There were blued, nickel, and bare steel models made.
Brad Darling wrote a great article about these in one of the Handcuff Annuals.
Chain lengths were varied too.
rejones68
#6Could you possibly post a picture of the label on your Super handcuff box? I’d like to see that if you could. Ron JMark Lyons O--O Cuffs wrote: ↑Sep 29, 2021Interesting labels on the above pics. Never seen those. Mine has an anchor logo.
The first model had serial numbers and no security channels for the bow to ride in.
Subsequent models had the reverse.
There were blued, nickel, and bare steel models made.
Brad Darling wrote a great article about these in one of the Handcuff Annuals.
Chain lengths were varied too.
holstcollection
#7Ron,
Here is a photo pf my box. This is an earlier box with the serial number stamped on it. There was also a special case made for these cuffs as the H&R will not fit in an ordinary case.
In addition, the forerunner and original patent for this pattern is Finnish. The Finnish patent was issued in 1928, six years before the US patent.
The name of these cuffs is Konepaja Voima and they are accordingly stamped so.
The black cuffs to the left are set of HETEKA. They somewhat differ in shape but they are also Finnish.
Lars
Here is a photo pf my box. This is an earlier box with the serial number stamped on it. There was also a special case made for these cuffs as the H&R will not fit in an ordinary case.
In addition, the forerunner and original patent for this pattern is Finnish. The Finnish patent was issued in 1928, six years before the US patent.
The name of these cuffs is Konepaja Voima and they are accordingly stamped so.
The black cuffs to the left are set of HETEKA. They somewhat differ in shape but they are also Finnish.
Lars
rejones68
#8I was aware of the special case but had know idea of how many different variations there are of these. Thanks for sharing. Ron Jholstcollection wrote: ↑Click to expand...Sep 30, 2021Ron,
Here is a photo pf my box. This is an earlier box with the serial number stamped on it. There was also a special case made for these cuffs as the H&R will not fit in an ordinary case.
In addition, the forerunner and original patent for this pattern is Finnish. The Finnish patent was issued in 1928, six years before the US patent.
The name of these cuffs is Konepaja Voima and they are accordingly stamped so.
The black cuffs to the left are set of HETEKA. They somewhat differ in shape but they are also Finnish.
Lars
Mark Lyons O--O Cuffs
#9Some nickel plated variations in my collection (Top pic)
1. 1st model no chain link Serial #2795
2. 2nd model 1 chain link
3. 2nd model 2 chain links
Non nickel plated (Bottom pic)
1. 2nd model bare steel no chain link
2. 1st model blued steel no chain link Serial #6353
I am still looking for my Navy cuffs with the anchor stamp on the box and I believe on the bow of the cuffs. I now believe that I have some Harvard leg irons in the box with the anchor and had it confused with the 123's
The anchor does appear on one of the bows on this example.
Here is the very hard to find H&R leg irons as well
1. 1st model no chain link Serial #2795
2. 2nd model 1 chain link
3. 2nd model 2 chain links
Non nickel plated (Bottom pic)
1. 2nd model bare steel no chain link
2. 1st model blued steel no chain link Serial #6353
I am still looking for my Navy cuffs with the anchor stamp on the box and I believe on the bow of the cuffs. I now believe that I have some Harvard leg irons in the box with the anchor and had it confused with the 123's
The anchor does appear on one of the bows on this example.
Here is the very hard to find H&R leg irons as well
rejones68
#10Very nice Mark, thank you for sharing. Ron JMark Lyons O--O Cuffs wrote: ↑Click to expand...Oct 09, 2021Some nickel plated variations in my collection (Top pic)
1. 1st model no chain link Serial #2795
2. 2nd model 1 chain link
3. 2nd model 2 chain links
Non nickel plated (Bottom pic)
1. 2nd model bare steel no chain link
2. 1st model blued steel no chain link Serial #6353
I am still looking for my Navy cuffs with the anchor stamp on the box and I believe on the bow of the cuffs.
rejones68
#11Spencer I’d like to think you for being the only one that addressed my actual question on this post. Ron J
ssbaldwin
#12Thanks Ron
I sometimes chime in if I think I have helpful information and I have two more variations of the H&R cuffs to show you too. While I don’t think these cuffs came from the factory like this it reinforces the notion that they were widely used by institutions other than the FBI right down to the municipal level. They are very sturdy cuffs but a trifle bulky compared to other swing through makes.
I sometimes chime in if I think I have helpful information and I have two more variations of the H&R cuffs to show you too. While I don’t think these cuffs came from the factory like this it reinforces the notion that they were widely used by institutions other than the FBI right down to the municipal level. They are very sturdy cuffs but a trifle bulky compared to other swing through makes.
rejones68
#13Mark I need to ask if the sets without the security channels first came with serial numbers? Or if they were first made without the serial numbers? I have seen both variations and I’m curious as which was made first. Do you know? Thanks, Ron JMark Lyons O--O Cuffs wrote: ↑Sep 29, 2021Interesting labels on the above pics. Never seen those. Mine has an anchor logo.
The first model had serial numbers and no security channels for the bow to ride in.
Subsequent models had the reverse.
There were blued, nickel, and bare steel models made.
Brad Darling wrote a great article about these in one of the Handcuff Annuals.
Chain lengths were varied too.
Mark Lyons O--O Cuffs
#14Hi,rejones68 wrote: ↑Aug 06, 2022Mark im watching two sets on eBay right now. Neither set have security channels and one set has serial numbers. The other set does not, but where the serial numbers are located on the other set they have the “Made in the USA” stamp. Can you tell me which set came first. The set with the serial number or the set without it? Thanks, Ron J
I see what you are talking about.
I believe from day 1, the factory (H&R a gun manufacturing entity) serial numbered these cuffs as they did on almost all of their guns or gun parts. They had the ability and equipment to do so.
My theory: At some point, (probably during the war) they asked themselves if this extra step was necessary as it caused extra time to get the product shipped, the item was not regulated like a gun and many of the cuffs were destined to be on ships (the U.S. Navy and such) and tracking their whereabouts with serial numbers in close quarters wasn't needed. Errors, such as bad stampings, duplicate numbers or equipment malfunctions may have caused some cuffs to be scrapped.
The cuffs with the security channel were made without the serial number and I suspect that during the transition between the 1st and 2nd models, a few were made without the numbering.
On the other hand, if eliminating the serial number for expedited manufacturing was one of the reasons, certainly machining the grooves out added a big step and delay to the process of getting the orders filled. Some or many cuffs made for the U.S. Navy also had the additional anchor stamp which must have been time consuming to add but most likely less than individually numbering would have been.
To answer your question, I can only guess that the one is transitional.
Now my question is what handcuff was the first to have the security channel?
Peerless 1st model did not have them, and I am not sure what year they added it. Did H&R see the benefit first?
David Teeters book may show the patent dates for Peerless, but the H&R model would require more research.
rejones68
#15Great response Mark and thank you for it. I was guessing the first H&R’s had the serial numbers then they did away with them for whatever reason. None of my H&R cuffs have serial numbers, however none of mine are without the security channels. I have the variations with no link, single link, and the double links between the cuffs. Now as for your question I really have know idea who came up with the security channel first. H&R or Peerless? Maybe someone on the forum could answer that question for us both. Ron JMark Lyons O--O Cuffs wrote: ↑Click to expand...Aug 06, 2022Hi,rejones68 wrote: ↑Aug 06, 2022Mark im watching two sets on eBay right now. Neither set have security channels and one set has serial numbers. The other set does not, but where the serial numbers are located on the other set they have the “Made in the USA” stamp. Can you tell me which set came first. The set with the serial number or the set without it? Thanks, Ron J
I see what you are talking about.
I believe from day 1, the factory (H&R a gun manufacturing entity) serial numbered these cuffs as they did on almost all of their guns or gun parts. They had the ability and equipment to do so.
My theory: At some point, (probably during the war) they asked themselves if this extra step was necessary as it caused extra time to get the product shipped, the item was not regulated like a gun and many of the cuffs were destined to be on ships (the U.S. Navy and such) and tracking their whereabouts with serial numbers in close quarters wasn't needed. Errors, such as bad stampings, duplicate numbers or equipment malfunctions may have caused some cuffs to be scrapped.
The cuffs with the security channel were made without the serial number and I suspect that during the transition between the 1st and 2nd models, a few were made without the numbering.
On the other hand, if eliminating the serial number for expedited manufacturing was one of the reasons, certainly machining the grooves out added a big step and delay to the process of getting the orders filled. Some or many cuffs made for the U.S. Navy also had the additional anchor stamp which must have been time consuming to add but most likely less than individually numbering would have been. thumbnail_IMG_5540.jpg
To answer your question, I can only guess that the one is transitional.
Now my question is what handcuff was the first to have the security channel?
Peerless 1st model did not have them, and I am not sure what year they added it. Did H&R see the benefit first?
David Teeters book may show the patent dates for Peerless, but the H&R model would require more research.
djhalfdead
#16Mark, the only Peerless cuff that did not have the ditched jaws was the very first "Patent Model." They started putting the grooves into the swing arms on Model 1 version 1, marked as made by S&W and employing the single oblong link.
-Richard Knip-
-Richard Knip-
dltvette
#17I’m not knowledgeable on the H & R handcuffs, but on the main page of this forum under Handcuffs,
( http://www.handcuffs.org/gallery/gallery_d-h.html ), the early H&R cuffs dated 1934, the photo did not show the groove, the later cuffs, late 1930’s, did show the groove.
As far as Peerless, the patent 1,157,135 that was the invention of Joseph H. Wesson and Edward S. Pomeroy, application for a patent filed on January 2, 1915 shows the groove (s) in the moveable arm (D) in Figure 1. This patent was used for what we refer to as the Model 1. The previous patent 1,161,562 invented by Joseph H. Wesson and filed by him on October 6, 1914, 3 months prior to patent 1,157,135, did not have the groove in the moveable arm (6). This patent was used for what we refer to as the Patent Model.
In a June 1915 issue of the Hardware Dealer’s Magazine, a Peerless Handcuff advertisement shows the image of what we refer to as the Model 1, and if you look closely to the open cuff, you can see the pawl ditch (groove).
On a side note, interesting to me, that in the 1,157,135 patent drawing used for the Model 1, in Fig.1, the top cuff is a drawing showing the lock case with a long flat side as used in the Model 1 production, and the bottom cuff lock case drawing is the curved lock case as used in the Patent Model production. It also shows the pawl ditch which did not occur in the Patent Model.
Attached are the images of the patent 1,161,562 (Patent Model), patent 1,157,135 (Model 1) and the June 1915 Hardware Dealer’s Magazine Peerless Handcuff advertisement.
I’m not sure if this helps to answer your question on the beginning of the groove, but it’s the best I can offer on my limited knowledge.
Dave
( http://www.handcuffs.org/gallery/gallery_d-h.html ), the early H&R cuffs dated 1934, the photo did not show the groove, the later cuffs, late 1930’s, did show the groove.
As far as Peerless, the patent 1,157,135 that was the invention of Joseph H. Wesson and Edward S. Pomeroy, application for a patent filed on January 2, 1915 shows the groove (s) in the moveable arm (D) in Figure 1. This patent was used for what we refer to as the Model 1. The previous patent 1,161,562 invented by Joseph H. Wesson and filed by him on October 6, 1914, 3 months prior to patent 1,157,135, did not have the groove in the moveable arm (6). This patent was used for what we refer to as the Patent Model.
In a June 1915 issue of the Hardware Dealer’s Magazine, a Peerless Handcuff advertisement shows the image of what we refer to as the Model 1, and if you look closely to the open cuff, you can see the pawl ditch (groove).
On a side note, interesting to me, that in the 1,157,135 patent drawing used for the Model 1, in Fig.1, the top cuff is a drawing showing the lock case with a long flat side as used in the Model 1 production, and the bottom cuff lock case drawing is the curved lock case as used in the Patent Model production. It also shows the pawl ditch which did not occur in the Patent Model.
Attached are the images of the patent 1,161,562 (Patent Model), patent 1,157,135 (Model 1) and the June 1915 Hardware Dealer’s Magazine Peerless Handcuff advertisement.
I’m not sure if this helps to answer your question on the beginning of the groove, but it’s the best I can offer on my limited knowledge.
Dave