Is it normal for patina self-contact causing lighter brown marks?

EDIT: Link to the journey and results image of what I have done since is here in the post below: Is it normal for patina self contact causing light

I have these 1900's old darbies I showed pictures of where I was asking for help in dating them. Well I have given them a clean up and waxing but I noticed they got some lighter brown marks on them. I thought it might have been residue from trying them in the leather darby case so I wiped the light brown off with my fingers and put them again away in my box of cuffs. I pulled them out the next day and saw light brown marks again. I have cleaned and re-wax them. Same thing. I have now used some 000 steel wool (maybe 0000, not sure) and used more peek cleaner on them and re-waxed. Same thing. Still have a rich dark brown patina, but if I take one bracelet and scrape it against the other, there's a lighter orange colour immediately which I can rub away with my fingers.

What am I doing wrong? My other cuffs do not do this. Is it that they have a too thick and lose patina which I need to do more work on removing to leave a thinner more hard and stable patina which doesn't scrape off at the drop of a hat?

I am really confused. Any help would be appreciated.

Quick video demo of it happening:

Seems like a type of chemical reaction of sorts? Maybe try applying a thin coat of oil instead of using wax. Apply the oil and wipe it back off. Leaving just enough to protect the finish but not soaking the table cloth in oil or getting your fingers oily while handling them. I use a 2 in 1 type oil from Handcuff Warehouse called "Mil - Spec CLP." Just a general firearms oil. Ive never waxed a set of cuffs but have had good luck with coating them in oil.
-Richard knip-

I am not sure how this has happened, they were essentially black when I got them but dirty gritty feeling. The more I scrub and Peek metal cleaner them, the less it happens. So I think I may be right, that it just has lose thick patina. Though I have never seen this before and no idea what would cause such a thick and lose patina. It's not as if they are rusted per se, but just almost like it has brown gritty varnish on it. It's weird to describe. I have a feeling this may be my only pair marked "HARD" so maybe the composition of the hardened steel is different than the rest of my Hiatt and Hiatt Best which do not mention HARD, which made the patina/coating/whatever more different than I am used to. Not sure.

I am at a loss as well. Ive never had such experience while cleaning a hardened cuff. Makes me think that the previous owner may have used something to coat them with or maybe a different typee of cleaner that is reacting when touched? Im just not sure. Keep us informed how the further cleaning goes.
-Richard Knip-

When I acquire a new set of irons I usually douse them with PB Blaster which seems to work on the rust and will leave the patina. I’ve had good results with this and you might like the way it works too.

Spencer

Don't over-think it. Patina on metal is rust. Wax will give it a coating but rub off the wax and you are back to rust again. Oil will penetrate and reduce the effect you are getting. Another good product is Dubbin for shoes. It is a combination oil and wax.

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Oct 18, 2022

I am at a loss as well. Ive never had such experience while cleaning a hardened cuff. Makes me think that the previous owner may have used something to coat them with or maybe a different typee of cleaner that is reacting when touched? Im just not sure. Keep us informed how the further cleaning goes.
-Richard Knip-

Also a possibility. So far as I have done a few cleanings it has vastly improved. I am tempted to use some WD40 specialist penetrating oil but I think it might be at an adequate point at the moment. If it happens again I will likely wire wool and coat in the oil and leave it a while and then degrease and what not. But I think it should be ok now.

So it kept happening, even after soft-methods to clean and try and maintain the nice black colour. Again, never happened on any other handcuff I own. But every time it gets scratched it produces a bright orange line which gets all over your hands and clothes. So I decided to evapo-rust them.

I used 0000 wire wool to both remove some surface caked on soft patina and also remove the wax I had applied. Then I evapo-rusted them for about 12 hours. Then I steel 0000 steel wooled them again and use some Bisley's Gun Bluing (cold bluing) of about 5 applications to get a nice dark grey colour.

Everything I have done has brought out the stamping a bit easier to see and now, when they scratch against themselves they go slightly shiny/silver instead of getting me coated in lose & staining orange rust patina. I would have liked to keep the nice dark black colour, but I can't have that orange thing getting on clothing if I had them to people etc.

After the bluing and waxing they have a nice darker look to them. I quite like it. I may have to try that on a few pieces I have put in Evapo-Rust and wasnt happy with the dull gray color they came out with.
Thanks for sharing your results!
-Richard Knip-

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Oct 23, 2022

After the bluing and waxing they have a nice darker look to them. I quite like it. I may have to try that on a few pieces I have put in Evapo-Rust and wasnt happy with the dull gray color they came out with.
Thanks for sharing your results!
-Richard Knip-

Thanks. Yes the Bisley's cold bluing does work great. It's not as deep as I have seen happen on other steels, such as my Fairbairn Sykes fighting knife, but after 5 applications it looks good to me. Not as black as I would like but I suppose I could have sat there an hour giving it application after application but I didn't want to take the micky and possibly end up with the same lose patina thing that they originally came with.

If you try this, remember to use gloves throughout the whole thing and change them during different phases. You want to keep finger oils off the steel while you 0000 steel wool it and also you want to prevent getting finger oils on while you blue them and the same while waxing. I would have used the same pair of nitrile gloves to blue after steel wooling them, but the gloves physically wore holes from the abrasion action.

The gun blue says rinse it off with water to see if you have enough bluing you want, else repeat (literally, rinse and repeat) but I just kept wiping it off with paper towel and repeated applications that way, then waxed.

Restoration looks good. 

silentbd wrote: ↑

Oct 23, 2022

So it kept happening, even after soft-methods to clean and try and maintain the nice black colour. Again, never happened on any other handcuff I own. But every time it gets scratched it produces a bright orange line which gets all over your hands and clothes. So I decided to evapo-rust them.

I used 0000 wire wool to both remove some surface caked on soft patina and also remove the wax I had applied. Then I evapo-rusted them for about 12 hours. Then I steel 0000 steel wooled them again and use some Bisley's Gun Bluing (cold bluing) of about 5 applications to get a nice dark grey colour.

Everything I have done has brought out the stamping a bit easier to see and now, when they scratch against themselves they go slightly shiny/silver instead of getting me coated in lose & staining orange rust patina. I would have liked to keep the nice dark black colour, but I can't have that orange thing getting on clothing if I had them to people etc.

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I’m definitely going to try this on several Darby cuffs in my collection. Your cuffs turned on very nice in my opinion. Ron J

There are a few schools of thought on restoration or conserving. 
1. To keep the original patina which is an honest representation of how the item has aged or been treated without removing anything from the item and to preserve that same patina for the future, avoiding any further damage (conserving).
2. To fix any damage and restore it to the original condition when it was made (complete restoration).
3. To repair or replace parts to maintain function (honest repair)
4. To repair or replace parts and match to original patina (sympathetic restoration)
As darbies were never blued, I think what you have now is unique - non original condition or finish. It is good that you've experimented on a cheap darby. I doubt anyone will try it on their ER's though. It would be better to buy a polished steel or plated darby to see the original condition and then conserve it. As long as you are happy, that's the main thing. Many will not agree with me, but many will.
P

PaulJDavies wrote: ↑

Oct 23, 2022

There are a few schools of thought on restoration or conserving. 
1. To keep the original patina which is an honest representation of how the item has aged or been treated without removing anything from the item and to preserve that same patina for the future, avoiding any further damage (conserving).
2. To fix any damage and restore it to the original condition when it was made (complete restoration).
3. To repair or replace parts to maintain function (honest repair)
4. To repair or replace parts and match to original patina (sympathetic restoration)
As darbies were never blued, I think what you have now is unique - non original condition or finish. It is good that you've experimented on a cheap darby. I doubt anyone will try it on their ER's though. It would be better to buy a polished steel or plated darby to see the original condition and then conserve it. As long as you are happy, that's the main thing. Many will not agree with me, but many will.
P

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Excellent reply. Yes, definitely unique. For my collecting purposes, the reason I am ok with this "restoration" of the finish is it's a different method of achieving a similar result. They weren't blued back in the day, but over the decades the patina that develops does change and darken their appearance. I'm not sure what determines whether a cuff is just full of orange rust vs ones which have a nice darker appearance, but these now look very similar (though more consistent over the entire surface) to other darby cuffs I have. The only difference is through people cleaning (perhaps) the other ones, they are not fully darkened, they are dark in parts, darker in others and almost bare silver metal in other parts. I'm not going to the level of "distressing" the appearance with steel wooling or metal polishing, but I do like how they look now and they look miles better than their evapo-rusted comparison. Much more fitting looking old finish. The de-rusted grey look is already "unique" but in a bad way I feel. Looks totally wrong, as others also seem to agree. So I am happy with my results :D

Never really cleaned up old cuffs apart from gently wire wooling them and oiling them. I do agree with you Paul and would never consider bluing them! What is interesting is that I do have a set of Hiatt cuffs that are blued! They are marked MOW (ministry of works), also GK and have two original keys which are also lightly blued. No idea what GK stands for?
Seems that the MOW was formed in 1940 to requisition property for wartime use, in 1962 it was renamed Ministry of Public Building and Works.

I have never used steel wool or anything on and of my Darbys but oil. However after seeing how Silentbd’s cuffs turn out I’m definitely going to try this out on a few of my nastier Darbys. I won’t be blueing any of them but Evaporust and steel wool I’am definitely trying out. Ron J

rejones68 wrote: ↑

Oct 25, 2022

I have never used steel wool or anything on and of my Darbys but oil. However after seeing how Silentbd’s cuffs turn out I’m definitely going to try this out on a few of my nastier Darbys. I won’t be blueing any of them but Evaporust and steel wool I’am definitely trying  out. Ron J

The thing you will notice with the evapo-rust is the cuffs go light matt grey. Often it's not a very fetching look. For me, the bluing was the final cosmetic step to making them look nice. Also for steel wool, I use the really, really fine stuff 0000 grade.

silentbd wrote: ↑

Oct 26, 2022

rejones68 wrote: ↑

Oct 25, 2022

I have never used steel wool or anything on and of my Darbys but oil. However after seeing how Silentbd’s cuffs turn out I’m definitely going to try this out on a few of my nastier Darbys. I won’t be blueing any of them but Evaporust and steel wool I’am definitely trying  out. Ron J

The thing you will notice with the evapo-rust is the cuffs go light matt grey. Often it's not a very fetching look. For me, the bluing was the final cosmetic step to making them look nice. Also for steel wool, I use the really, really fine stuff 0000 grade.

I’ve used Evaporust on steel cuffs but not Darbys and I know exactly what you’re talking about. It leaves that really dull looking grey coating on the steel. I’ve used FLITZ. Its a polish that you can just put on a rag and wipe the steel with and it takes that grey coat right off with just a wipe. Leaving the steel clean. Now I’m just going to include the very fine steel wool into my process and try all three together. I added a few before and after photos of a set of Cobb Beans that were really nasty that I used Evaporust and Flitz to clean. Thanks for the info it is appreciated. Ron J

WOW so you're saying the light grey is not bare metal? It's something left over from the evapo-rust process which comes off?!?!

silentbd wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2022

WOW so you're saying the light grey is not bare metal? It's something left over from the evapo-rust process which comes off?!?!

That’s been the case with the cuffs I’ve used it on. I’ve soaked a few cuffs in it now and I think that grey coating is from the evaporust. Ron J

The dull gray appearance after using Evapo-Rust is actually the bare metal. If you use a polish on bare metal, you will bring out the shine of the metal. The more you polish, the shinier it gets. I use a polishing wheel, 3 different polishing compounds and a buffing wheel. Makes the cuffs look almost chrome by the time you are finished. Only drawback is, without any type of protective coating on them, the cuffs will develop surface rust over time, since there is nothing left to coat the metal. Evapo-Rust does not eat away any chrome or nickel plating, however. So, if it takes the cuffs down to bare gray metal, there was no plating left before they were soaked. Soaked car parts come out looking about the same way, as long as there was no paint left on them before soaking.
-Richard Knip-

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2022

The dull gray appearance after using Evapo-Rust is actually the bare metal. If you use a polish on bare metal, you will bring out the shine of the metal. The more you polish, the shinier it gets. I use a polishing wheel, 3 different polishing compounds and a buffing wheel. Makes the cuffs look almost chrome by the time you are finished. Only drawback is, without any type of protective coating on them, the cuffs will develop surface rust over time, since there is nothing left to coat the metal. Evapo-Rust does not eat away any chrome or nickel plating, however. So, if it takes the cuffs down to bare gray metal, there was no plating left before they were soaked. Soaked car parts come out looking about the same way, as long as there was no paint left on them before soaking.
-Richard Knip-

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That makes perfectly good sense. Thanks, Ron J

For comparison here's a before and after. The first one is only with mild metal polish, but still had the scratchy issue where fresh rust would stain hands and clothing. The bottom one is with after steel wooling, evapo-rust, wooling again, bluing and wax. Full resolution image for reference.

This is a Tower Detective cuff that was completely rusted and trash. Basically would have worked great as a paper weight. I soaked it in Evapo-Rust to eat away the rust. Of course, it left the surface severely pitted where the rust was. I have been sanding and lightly grinding certain areas to alleviate the pitting. You can see the areas where I have started with the first polishing compound. This was a coarse compound. You can still see the swirl marks from the steel wool and from the sanding. I have a meduim and a fine compound to go. The fine compound, or I sometimes do a fourth and go down to "very fine",  will take out the final swirl marks. I still have a lot of sanding to do to get rid of the pitting marks. But, if i try to take all of the pitting out, the cuffs will likely be too thin. The pits are pretty deep. I will get as much of the pitting out as I can and polish these. Hoping to make them into a wall hanger display with a copy of the patent drawings as a display behind them in a case. Make a few dollars and on to the next cuff.
-Richard knip-

djhalfdead wrote: ↑

Oct 27, 2022

This is a Tower Detective cuff that was completely rusted and trash. Basically would have worked great as a paper weight. I soaked it in Evapo-Rust to eat away the rust. Of course, it left the surface severely pitted where the rust was. I have been sanding and lightly grinding certain areas to alleviate the pitting. You can see the areas where I have started with the first polishing compound. This was a coarse compound. You can still see the swirl marks from the steel wool and from the sanding. I have a meduim and a fine compound to go. The fine compound, or I sometimes do a fourth and go down to "very fine",  will take out the final swirl marks. I still have a lot of sanding to do to get rid of the pitting marks. But, if i try to take all of the pitting out, the cuffs will likely be too thin. The pits are pretty deep. I will get as much of the pitting out as I can and polish these. Hoping to make them into a wall hanger display with a copy of the patent drawings as a display behind them in a case. Make a few dollars and on to the next cuff. IMG_0376.JPG
-Richard knip-

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Richard do you remember me showing you the Tower Beans pattern cuffs that I paid $50 for without a key? When I was done with just soaking them in evaporust and wiping them down with Flitz you told me I could probably get $200 for them. Making our collections look great is part of the collecting process to me. Mind you there’s still certain cuffs I would absolutely not do a thing too. Ron J

I completely agree with you, Ron. To me it all depends on the condition of the cuff and the rarity. The bulk of my collection is untouched.
-Richrad Knip-