The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Hiatt Belt

33 visible archived posts · 33 preserved total · topic ID 818

Chris Gower 19 Jul 2005

Page 242 of Alex Nichols book shows the Hiatt restraint belt that Pete McCahon had in his collection. Attached here are hopefully better quality photos showing the belt. I have had several various belts over the past 35 years but this one is rather nice. I believe it to be the medium size - it has 5 adjustments for waists measuring from 29 inches to 38 inches. The belt is marked CLIFF WALSALL (this company are still around and are considered one of the best harness and saddle makers in the UK having supplied items to many Royals). It also has the date stamp of 1952 on it and the government broad arrow. The handcuffs are marked Hiatt British Made with the Hiatt logo curved. What is unusual is that the end lock also takes the same key (most Hiatt end locks I have come across take non standard keys). Also in black lettering is KE 0637 which is interesting, several darby type handcuffs have turned up all marked KE 2771 - perhaps various government items were catalogued and marked KE ....
These belts are rare and there are probably less than 20 in collections, do you have one? are there any markings on it?
Chris Gower

lauher 19 Jul 2005

Chris

Nice belt.

Here is a picture of mine. It has the same Cliff Walsall marking, but the date is 1942. It does not have the KE mark. Mine has backstrap Darby handcuffs.

Joe

Jack Tanis 19 Jul 2005

Joe's belt does not become actually official until he puts a picture or, preferably, some pictures of it in the Handcuffs.org Gallery.

Cheers,

Jack

Joe Lauher 19 Jul 2005

Jack
You know how to hurt a guy.
JOe

Coldsteelcuffs 20 Jul 2005

Hello, It would be interesting to know of those who respond with belts in their collection if they could tell the belt size and if they END LOCK is threaded the same as the KEYS for the Cuffs like the first belt?? Joe, could you tell us what size your belt is. I see from the Picture that the End Cap isn't a Backstrap type darby but does the key match the cuffs?? Thanks

Joe Lauher 20 Jul 2005

The belt is small, 30 inches or 76 cm in length. A standard Hiatt key fits both the cuffs and the endlock.

Joe

holstcollection 10 Feb 2011

Hi!

I found this old, but interesting, thread about Hiatt restraint belts.

Like Joe's belt, mine has also the Hiatt backstrap Darbys marked with the
broad arrow used for British government property.

Both cuffs and the front lock takes the same keys. There are unfortunately
no markings on the belt.

Is anyone able to date this belt? My guess is about WWII.

/Lars

www.holstcollection.com

Unresolved image reference ↗

Paul Davies 10 Feb 2011

It is obvious that the > W D (War Department) stamp would suggest it was made during wartime and it is similar to Joe's from 1942.
But were the cuffs recycled. Why it is stamped > WD 7 and then overstamped with 10.
Paul

Ian McColl 10 Feb 2011

Hi Paul, 10 appears to be first, maybe the key number, and then it was overstamped.

LK 10 Feb 2011

#10

hi i don't have a belt but a pair of well marked R.C.S. they are marked on the end caps with the key number 1780 on both cuffs and both keys (2 keys),also on both end caps is R.C.S. ,1941,3
THE BROAD ARROW IS LOCATED NOT ON THE BACK STRAP LIKE ABOVE BUT ON THE SIDE OF THE LOCK BODY WITH 13 UNDER IT , I THINK THE 10 OR PROBABLY THE 7 MUST HAVE MENT A SECTION OF THE WAR DEPARTMENT ????

LK D~D

Paul Davies 10 Feb 2011

#11

Yes Ian,
I thought that after I responded. Why I suggested that the cuffs might be recycled is because I thought backstrap darbies were made earlier than WW2, more like WW1 and way before that. Can anyone tell when Hiatt stopped making backstraps Darbies. The RCS false backstraps were made into the 50's at least because they are often dated.
Paul

cuffman69 10 Feb 2011

#12

The only input I can add is that in Lars's third picture the end lock appears to have "British Made" stamped on it. I remember once watching an episode of the Antique Roadshow where the expert referred to the exact date that the phrase first appeared on items in general. Unfortunately I can't recall exactly when it was but I believe it came into use around 1920. It is a common method used to date items in general but I've googled the term and can't find anything relevant.

As the end lock may not date to the same period as the rest of the belt the "British Made" mark may not be a reliable indicator in this instance.

Most Military cuffs come with a date on them but I would definitely put it pre WW II and If it wasn't for the end lock I'd even put it pre WWI.

Steve Santini 11 Feb 2011

#13

Is pinned in.

I have only seen this on older Darby restraints.

Later, the plug was put in and just held in by the stamped designs on the end of the lock tube.

S.S.

lauher 11 Feb 2011

#14

I believe Hiatt made a few backstrap Darby cuffs in the period leading up to the second world war. I have one very nice example of one pair stamped British Made and I also have a Hiatt belt with backstrap Darbies with the stamp.

The RCS, JG and MCI pseudo backstrap Darby cuffs were during the war. I have always assumed they did this, because the War Department wanted cuffs that matched Hiatt's backstrap Darbies.

Joe

Unknown / guest 11 Feb 2011

#15

I believe Hiatt made a few backstrap Darby cuffs in the period leading up to the second world war. I have a nice example of one pair stamped British Made and I also have a Hiatt belt with backstrap Darbies with the stamp.

The RCS, JG and MCI pseudo backstrap Darby cuffs were during the war. I have always assumed they did this, because the War Department wanted cuffs that matched Hiatt's backstrap Darbies.

Joe

Tom Parker 11 Feb 2011

#16

I have a Hiatt belt that I am interested in selling. It is broad arrow marked and is a medium sized belt. Leather is in excellent condition, the cuffs are backstrap darbies, there is an end lock. Comes with 2 keys, one fits the cuffs, the other is smaller and it fits the end lock. I will consider offers here first, and then move on to ebay if I find no one is interested. I will have pictures Saturday afternoon. Please email me if you want pictures.Thanks ....Tom

Nils 12 Feb 2011

#17

My Hiatt belt measures 130cm total (51 inches) with adjustments from 92 to 116cm (36 to 46 inches). The front lock didn't come with it. The cuffs are marked 32 and Hiatt, no markings on the belt. 5 slots for adjustment.

The other photos are from a belt interior, or metal liner, that I no longer have. Interesting maybe nevertheless. Notice it has a total of 6 adjustment holes (not all may have been accessible, depending on the leather work).

It's interesting the how the cuffs are mounted is sometimes different. I understand the belt is sometimes referred to as a "hangman's belt". Does anybody have information on that? It might just be a high security restraint as far as I can tell.

Cheers
Nils

MICHAEL LEE 12 Feb 2011

#18

Hello all

This is a most interesting post-

so here's my related question....Where would one find a leather maker able to sew thru such Thick leather Hide ?
My first thought would be a saddle maker, I appreciate any info into this matter.

also is that a length steel plating/sheet metal between the layers of leather ?

ML

Edgeplay_Cgo 12 Feb 2011

#19

A harnessmaker or saddle maker would have a sewing machine capable of handling that kind of leather.

You are correct. The belt is, in fact, a steel belt sandwuched between two layers of leather.

Nils 13 Feb 2011

#20

I was actually considering rebuilding the metal one, but it would have cost at least 50 Euros ($65) for the leather, plus the workmanship, plus the cuffs and the front lock (frozen) would have had to be replaced ... . And then, what you have is a non-original belt.

Cheers
Nils

Edgeplay_Cgo 13 Feb 2011

#21

Yeah, you'd essentially be building a new pair. There is a phrase for that in vehicle restoration. You jack up the nameplate, and build a new car under it.

Tom Parker 13 Feb 2011

#22

The Hiatt belt is sold, and in the mail.Thanks to those who asked about it.

Ian McColl 13 Feb 2011

#23

Rebuilding the belt would mean you still have a high security leather belt.
Its like my grandfathers hammer. He gave it to me as a kid and over the years the handle broke, I replaced it. Some years later the head got loose and flew off, so I replace it. It still does what it is meant to do and its always going to my grandfathers hammer to me.

MICHAEL LEE 14 Feb 2011

#24

Well said Ian ...BTW Hope you/yours are keeping above water !

Just curious has anyone found a saddle maker Who is able to sew thru such thick leather, that they would be will to share an email address here, as I have been looking with no success as yet.

Maybe Joe Fox whould like to chime into this Topic as I believe he may have (?) been involved w/ Steve Baker and the making of his restraint belt he sold a number of yrs ago.

ML

Ian McColl 14 Feb 2011

#25

Hi Michael, most thick leather is sewn by hand. A toothed wheel is run along the leather at a marked distance from the edge. The teeth mark dots at even spacing. An awl is used to make a hole thru the leather and using two needles at either end of a length of saddlers waxed thread, the needles are passed thru the leather, one in each direction, a bit like doing up shoe laces. Do a google search. It's easy, just time consuming.

Ian

Jack.Tanis 14 Feb 2011

#26

Dear Michael,

Dell's Leather Works, of Kingston, NY, can do the work you want. Their Web site ishttp://www.dellsleatherworks.com/. You can see the variety and quality of their work. They custom-made this leather chain nipper holder for an acquaintance of mine.

Cheers,

Jack
http://www.editing.org.uk/tanis/collectibles.htm

Unresolved image reference ↗

Michael Lee 14 Feb 2011

#27

Thank you Jack & Ian for your response

ML

The Amazing Michael 14 Feb 2011

#28

Michael, a guy named Frank Kaiser (who use to post here) does a lot of saddle work and might be able to undertake a project that involves sewing thick leather. Franks last known e-mail address is: frank@rockingksaddlery.com . Good luck with your project.

Cheers, Mike D~C/

Paul Davies 02 Dec 2014

#29

I bought this belt on eBay Canada which is marked
D. Mason & Sons
C&M 1882
Birmingham

W /|\ D (War Department)

The cuffs and Endlock are all marked Hiatt and open with the same key. One cuff stamped 13 and other stamped 8. The key is also stamped 8. There does not appear to be any steel reinforcing in the belt except for where the cuffs are permanently attached.

Thought some of you might like to see it.
Regards
Paul

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lauher 02 Dec 2014

#30

Paul
Nice find.
Joe

LK 02 Dec 2014

#31

Yes Paul,that is a very nice find indeed, also the find of the advertisement, noticed that it was marked est.1762 I can't make out the date on your belt photo, are you sure it's 1862 or could it also be 1762 ?

Paul Davies 03 Dec 2014

#32

The date is 1882. The second last number is definitely an 8 and the last number has a round top and a flat bottom, so I can only assume it is a 2. The advertisement is from Kelly's Directory 1883 which is around the time that "& Sons" was added to the business name. They were still making items during the First World War, which might also include more restraint belts - but mainly horse related items.
Paul

Paul 09 Aug 2015

#33

Here to some previous info.

The last link is a long winded video of York Castle which shows a metal belt - at the end of the video.
If true these restraints date back to mid 1700s or earlier.
Paul

http://www.network54.com/Forum/261154/m ... Hiatt+Belt

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxVUD9r3zXE