The Forum at Handcuffs.Org

Tips for New York City?

20 visible archived posts · 20 preserved total · topic ID 872

Unimuc 29 Aug 2005

Hi,

I'll be visiting New York for a few days next week... So my question is: does anybody have "on-topic" hints for a tourist from germany about where to go there? Any interesting restraint/police-exhibitions or collections there which one shouldn't miss?

Or possibly addresses of police-equipment shops where one can get current cuffs without all the export hassles? Especially I'd currently be interested in a Hiatts bellychain, as mine doesn't fit into the Hiatts Blue Box II I just acquired, but I expect it's unrealistic to get such things in an usual shop?

Thanks for any hints,
Martin

Coldsteelcuffs 29 Aug 2005

I've sent you an E-mail

Michael Lee 29 Aug 2005

Hi Martin

After the our 9/11 tragidy..... Everyone here in NY Law enforcement are very Suspecious / Learry of anyone wanting to purchase

restraints or police equiptment with out proper ID ( & Who can Blame them )

They will sell Only to those Directly involved in Law enforcement .....Again with proper ID.

Just thought id give you the heads up.

Michael Lee

The Amazing Michael 29 Aug 2005

That does not make any sense. Almost all of the restraints sold in "cop-shops" here in the states open with the same key. The keys by themselves are readily availible at locksmith shops. In fact, I sold them through my locksmithing shop for years. What good would buying a pair of handcuffs do for a terrorist? If anything, they should ban the sale of box cutters to the general public in NY. Just a thought. Mike

michael lee 29 Aug 2005

"What good would buying a pair of handcuffs do for a terrorist " Hhmmm, Mike ,This statement alone speaks Volumes !

Please take the time to read my post once again.

And if you still don't get it maybe the date 9/11 will strike a cord.

Michael Lee

Jack Tanis 29 Aug 2005

Hello,

I certainly shall be sorry for writing this. Still, the best tip I have for someone planning to visit New York City is don't. New York's laws are draconian. What isn't illegal is regulated harshly and capriciously, and what remains is taxed exorbitantly.

Handcuffs -- and box cutters, too -- are legal items, the sale and purchase of which should be unfettered by government intervention or other intrusive measures. It is preposterously absurd that it is easier to obtain heroin and crack cocaine than it is to buy pepper spray.

Cheap political pandering and grandstanding accomplish nothing more than enshrining a thriving black market, which probably fuels New York's economy second only to Wall Street.

No one of sound mind rejoices in the World Trade Centre destruction, which, incidentally, was wholly and easily preventable, yet nearly everyone is tired of hearing about it repeatedly, especially when it is abused as an obtuse justification for the creation of a police state.

Cheers,

Jack

m104ms 30 Aug 2005

Welcome to the New World Order! Since 9/11 the world has changed forever...

The Amazing Michael 30 Aug 2005

Michael Lee, the 9-11-01 terror attacks were comitted by people who highjacked airplanes from other geographic locations (with box cutters) and came to NYC via the highjacked airplanes to crash them into the twin towers. Did the terrorists jump from the planes at the last minute and start handcuffing people to prevent them from saving the people at ground zero? Or were they hiding handcuff keys in their mouths as the "fled" the scene in case the police caught them; so they could escape? Obviously, I just don't get it....and I am not even trying to be a smart alac about this....I seriously do not get it. If you would be so kind as to explain how the sale of handcuffs to the general public puts anyone in greater danger of terrorism, perhaps then I will understand your post. Until then, I seriously do not get it! Thanks, Mike

josef5 30 Aug 2005

Hello,

that´s terrible to hear about these restrictions. In fact it´s much worse than the life in countries of central and eastern Europe during the communist era. At that time everybody was under very strict control, but this seems to be much more draconian. I always considered USA to be the state of high degree of freedom, but this is great disappointment to me.

Best regards

Josef
Czech Republic

Dorson 30 Aug 2005

#10

Hello all,
I believe the logic that they are using is that handcuffs could be used by a terrrorist by taking people hostage and handcuffs would make it easier to do. Keep in mind that the government is a day late and a way short on dealing with terrorists. And as in typical fashion they come up with these band aid solutions to show the masses ther are doing something about it when they really aren't doing anything to make a impact on the real problem. I call it smoke and mirrors.... Considering the billions of dollars spent now on upgrading security at various places would not stop a terrorist but it makes the masses feel safer, even if it is false sense of feeling safe. Basically all the terrorists they have caught has happened because of luck of some sort of dumb luck.

-Dorson

The Amazing Michael 31 Aug 2005

#11

Which would work better for restraining say 50 people?....50 pairs of handcuffs or one roll of duct tape? I know which one I would rather carry and I know which one can get through a metal detector. I might also consider carrying a bunch of shoelaces (they can get through the metal detector too). I can bind a person's hands with a shoelace pretty darn well and I do not have the advantage of having gone to terrorist school like these peices of crap did. But wait....they didn't tie anyone up, they kept the people in line with threats of violence....not physical restraints. This debate is kind of pointless. It doesn't matter if the shops in NYC will or will not sell you cuffs....just do what I do.....buy them off of the internet. You can get anything on the net. I have bought many fine handcuffs, locks, straitjackets, and box cutters off of the internet....well, maybe not box cutters....I just threw that in for effect....ha-ha! Well, I think that is enough of this subjet for me. Later, Mike

Michael Lee 01 Sep 2005

#12

Hello All

Thank you Dorson...Glad to see that some one gets it.

I was 10 Blocks away from 9/11........ Many of you can Not even begin to imagine what NYC was like on that day, but for weeks , Even

months later..... So very *%#* SAD, Unfair & To moving to even think of.

I can not tell you how many Free Performances I gave for our Fire & Police personal of the city in the many months following 9/11
even now , 4 yrs later I still continue to be in touch with many of the families, just to say a "hello' & to see how there doing.
you can not imagine what this means to them.

So to fully understand Why restrictions are being put on the purchase of things like Badges, Handcuffs, uniforms etc....One has only to speak to the Greaving widow of a Fire Fighter (Lost 343 that day) a Policeman, Not to mention the many Poor souls just putting in "another day at the office", How do you explane to a Child that mom or dad will NEVER be home... ever again... Sad & Unfair.

Yes, since 9/11 the World has Changed forever ! I'm not sure about the whole world order thing ...Since most People wanting to be here would give there right hand to live here ,Not to mention a liver, a kidney & have !! You get the idea.

Clinton was well aware of the Terrorist threat, he dropped the ball , probably working overtime in the Oval office.....Hhmm.

Now Bush has to Clean up his Mess.

What ever your views may be of President Bush , At least he Had the Backbone to "Take care of Busines's ! other wise NYC not to mention any other city in America may very well have been hit again....Sorry but I don't see this happening on Bush's watch. (Cut the Guy some slack Sheehann)

Freedom is not Free......Take it or leave it.
New Orleans you are in our Prayers

Michael Lee

Steve Santini 01 Sep 2005

#13

911, while horrible beyond imagining, really has little to do with shop keepers who specialize in law enforcement products being willing to sell to people who are not in the business of law enforcement.

When Medeco brand lock cylinders were first manufactured, they were intended for sole military use and as such, were "controlled" by the makers and were only available to the military.

Now, they are in every part of commerical service as well.

It is no secret that many dealers in Police and prison restraints follow a similiar policy of controlling who can buy such items.

And it has nothing at all to do with 911.

Rather, the reasons for this are far more practical and logical and revolve around the interchangability of the "universal key" and/or who should be able to study and understand the device itself.

Back over 25 years ago when no one gave a second thought to terrorists, there were at least 2 law enforcement supply companies in Toronto who would not sell restraints intended for Police use to civilians.

Across Canada as a whole there were many more and there were plenty in the USA as well. I know this firsthand because I ran into this often.

This restriction was more an effort to keep the devices, and the keys, out of the hands of those who had no buisness owning them in the first place.

It was a matter of individual retailer policy and had nothing to do with terrorism.

Likely as not it had more to do with the security of the people who used such devices on a day to day basis.

Steve Santini

The Amazing Michael 01 Sep 2005

#14

Michael Lee, I have no intention to dimnish the events of 9/11. I, myself, have given money countless times to help the police, fire-fighters, their families, and anyone else who was directly affected by this horrible tragety. I even did a free show at a benefit for the fire-fighters.....and it was the first free show that I have done since my first year of performing (I felt that strongly about this situation). However, in your last post you mentioned badges and other items along with handcuffs. I will tell you now that badges and handcuff, even though they go hand in hand, are clearly not the same thing. Badges ARE a dangerous thing in my opinion. The badge is what identifies a cop to civilians and has the ability to decieve people in unspeakable ways. Many infamous serial killers, like Ted Bundy, Jerry Brudos, and John Wayne Gacy, just to name a few, used badges in their ruse to gain control over potential victims. But, I don't see handcuff to be dangerous in the same way as a badge. I hope you are not sore at me over this miscommunication....I really didn't understand what you were trying to say in your first two posts. Also, if we ever cross paths at a convention or something, I have a great little story I will share with you about the 9/11 benefit I performed at. Sorry about the crossed wires Michael. All the best, Mike

Jack Tanis 02 Sep 2005

#15

Hello,

Some messages in this thread contain seriously flawed, faulty, illogical, inconsistent and irrational reasoning and thought.

I never have fulfilled any officially codified, objective standard, criterion or criteria to possess handcuffs. What legitimate, overriding public interest dictates I should? I am confident few if any restraints collectors have passed any test permitting them to indulge in their hobbies, either.

The arm of the law may be long, yet it is short-sighted. Handcuffs are inherently neutral objects. If used to further an unlawful end, more than enough existing statues exist to facilitate prosecuting an offender. To be thorough, proponents of "rules and regulations" ought not stop at handcuffs. They ought seek the same repressive measures be applied to what may be used as handcuff-equivalents, such as chains and padlocks, rope and, as someone mentioned, duct tape. Society surely will be safer and more enlightened for their efforts.

It may interest some Forum readers to know that in Canada, the Solicitor General has the authority to ban, and has banned, books and other printed materials.

Restrictions, censorship, favouritism and judgmental selections have a way of taking on lives of their own, until, as noted 60 years ago, "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others."

Cheers,

Jack

Steve Santini 02 Sep 2005

#16

Hi Jack,

As I stated in my post, it has only been some of the individual retailers in my country who have adopted a "will not sell this item to civilians".

They are the ones who seem to feel that items such as restraints in the hands of "Joe Public" is somehow a breach of security.

It may be silly, it may be illogical, but it does happen.

On the other hand, with books as you mentioned, there our government HAS stepped in and done fascist things like banning and restricting certain titles based on "objectionable content".

And yet we are still able to get the Jerry Springer show up here.

Go figure...

I guess there is simply no accounting for taste, or lack thereof.

Steve Santini

Jack Tanis 02 Sep 2005

#17

Dear Steve,

Jerry Springer should take a long walk on a short pier, submerge thrice and emerge twice. But, he should not be forced to do it.

Your "lack thereof" comment is more on point than most realise. Whilst there is accounting for taste, there is no accounting for bad taste.

My general thesis, with which no one is compelled to agree, is that were life the simple no-brainer many assume it to be, the human race would have achieved Utopia by now. It has not, and neither prior restraint (pun intended) nor after-the-fact quick fixes will get it there. These perhaps well-intended yet certainly ill-conceived practises invariably backfire, continually bringing us closer to the ever-watchful eye of Big Brother. Then the modest yet important advances and progress made over centuries come to a screeching halt as another Dark Ages, awaiting us even now, descends upon us. Although eminently plausible, this is neither imminent nor inevitable. Personally, I rather would avoid that, regardless of how meagre my influence is.

Appealing to the lowest common denominator is a major impediment to progress, to moving forward positively, regardless of how slowly. Paranoid imaginations run rampant always appeal to and bring out the worst in persons. Whether it is handcuffs, a particular book or even a Jerry Springer is incidental to the insidious process itself. Here endeth the sermonette.

Cheers,

Jack

P.S. Not to worry about New Orleans -- Jesse Jackson has arrived and is on the scene!

The Amazing Michael 02 Sep 2005

#18

OH, SNAP! Jack, you did not just go there! LOL! Come on, let's leave the Rev. Jackson out of this! LOL! After all, he was the one who got the hostages back! LOL! I did like the "short walk off a long pier" thing; beautiful! "Down thrice and up twice".....I am in stiches! Always a pleasure to read your posts brother.

Santini, where have you been lately? I haven't heard from you in a dog's age! I just read about your new "Dragged to Death" stunt. No slack in the chain? You better be careful....no room for error there. E-mail me when you have time. All the best, Mike

Ian McColl 03 Sep 2005

#19

Well said Jack ( as always )
In the state of Queensland Australia, I know that civilians can own handcuffs only if they don't lock or have a quick release function, like cheap Takeda style toy handcuffs. In New South Wales, civilian cannot have handcuffs unless they have a collectors license. This is because several security guard holdups and rapes accured using handcuffs. This is not to say that it has stopped it, it would just mean that if anyone uses them for that purpose, it's another charge the police can lay.

I recently imported books I had authored but printed in the US back to myself to read and have a copy. They were held in customs as subversive material and I had to apply to the correct authority to bring in my own works.

As you say "Appealing to the lowest common denominator".
The world will never improve as it is the lowest common demominator which breeds the most.

Ian

Unimuc 26 Sep 2005

#20

Hi,

OK, thanks to everyone who replied... Regarding the "terrorists" discussion, I saw several shops offering handcuffs without problems, but nothing really interesting. I considered buying a pair of Peerless 700 for $30, but since I've meanwhile got the Peerless 710 HS I have at least one Peerless model in my collection and didn't see the real point in adding a standard-model to this I also didn't buy the classical "smith fargo" toy cuffs (which I refuse to add to my collection for over 10 years now) even though $3 in chinatown would have been one of the lowest prices I've seen for those so far...

What I did buy is a Medeco padlock, so I find it interesting to read that Medeco originally produced for the military only, but I was unable to find the 3 pin version of the cam-lock used in the Peerless HS.

Martin