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25 visible archived posts · 25 preserved total · topic ID 902
Original topic ↗Recovered images
josef5 14 Sep 2005
#1
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Mark Lyons 14 Sep 2005
#2
Hi Josef,
These cuffs were part of a collection that was offered here on Handcuffs.org. I am not sure of who bought the collection but I know that I am still interested in one or more pieces. There are a few other guys that are also interested if the buyer would step forward and let us know if he has any for sale or trade.
The cuffs that you have pictured are the French Presto-Lion cuffs. There are 2 variations that I know of and the stampings are different on each. One has a long chain and the other has a very short chain or no links. Both variations are slightly different and the length of the chain is not the only difference. The cuffs are designed to be opened all the way and locked into position so that they will not prematurely close by an arming button. They are made of aluminum or an aluminum based metal.
Hope this helps.
mark
stan willis 14 Sep 2005
#3
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
You would think Mark Lyons would know how to spell LYON. It is a city in France. I wonder if the patent shows the patent owner as being from Lyon, or if the cuff was manufactured there.
Stan

Dorson 15 Sep 2005
#4
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Hi Josef,
I would be interested in the full drawings, I like to keep track of the internal mechanisms of various handcuffs... Thanks in advance!

-Dorson
Mark Lion 15 Sep 2005
#5
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
I am embarrassed!
Yes, one would think that I would know how to spell the name of that cuff.
First Joe Lauher called me Mike. (although I have been called worse!) Then I was spelling the origin of one of my cuffs "Russian" when I should have been spelling it "Indian" and now this blunder. It will be hard to live this one down.

I guess that I am working too hard....its time to relax and hang out with you fellas at the convention!
josef5 15 Sep 2005
#6
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Hi to everybody,

in terms of patent files. I have got a large number of various patent files, much more that shown at www.blacksteel.com, because I downloaded almost every patent from US database and Espacenet and in addition I went through French, German, Spanish databases. I found many documents related to French, Spanish and mainly German cuffs and come alongs.

To tell the truth I have 200 - 250 patent files guessingly now and I haven´t donwloaded all I know about. In addition I want to visit Czech patent office in Praha personally, bacause old Czech patents for cuffs are unattainable via Internet.

Finaly I plan to create CD devoted to patents for handcuffs, come alongs, thumbcuffs ang legirons and offer this CD to the public for the price equal to the cost of production and shipping. I am very busy now, so potentially interested persons must be patient now.

Thank you for your help with identifing Presto cuffs.

Josef
Czech Republic
claude 15 Sep 2005
#7
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
I have two different models (marks differ)
Very bad state. Not opened. One hand broken in one
pair(short chain).
to be sold.
chris65 18 Sep 2005
#8
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
what is aluminum, is it similar to aluminium?.....lol
Mark Lyons 18 Sep 2005
#9
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Hi. One additional note about the LYON Presto cuff:
This is an example of how items placed into production can vary from its two dimensional beginnings.
The small arming buttons are not located in the spot that is designated by the letter "r" in the patent drawing. The arming buttons are located below the clevis and protrude out about a 1/4 inch.......or just a few millimeters to you folks that reside in aluminium producing nations.
m
chris65 19 Sep 2005
#10
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
hi mark, thanks for the update, as an ex-englishman living in canada now, i don't do metric so please explain the "mm" things.....and i do seem to remember that an englishman discovered the element of aluminium back in 1805, i can only think that something was "lost in translation", please try and put things straight with your fellow countrymen, you can still buy oxford english dictionaries online.....lol...ttfn.c. oh, p.s. thanks for keeping the imperial system going even if you do still have trouble with your small gallons etc....lol.
Mark Lyons 19 Sep 2005
#11
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Hi Chris, So you are living in Canada, ey? I hope that you are living in a nice luxury condominum or condominium and driving a Jaguar (that's Jag-waar" not "Jag U ar") with aluminium wheels and a spare tire in the boot. People from far away always talk funny

I did a little checking and found the following:
Aluminum is the most abundant metal on the surface of the Earth. It is never found as a metal in nature. It is always combined with other elements such as potassium and most commonly in a compound known as alum.
A DUTCH chemist, Hans Christian Oersted extracted aluminum in 1825 is is credited with "discovering" it although scientists suspected its existence in alum back in 1787 but did not have the means to isolate it.
German and French scientists developed ways to extract aluminum from alum in subsequent years and made it commercially available. The price dropped from $1200 per kilogram in 1852 to about $40 per kilogram in 1859. (I am glad my ancestors were not aluminum brokers.)
Further developments by an American scientist made the extraction process from other compounds and made aluminum production even more economical by the 1880's

Sorry to bust your bubble about your former countryman not being the original aluminum tycoon. This this might show that it should be aluminum and not aluminium.

Paul Reardon 19 Sep 2005
#12
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Hello Mark,I believe that American scientist was Charles Martin Hall. He was a benefactor of my alma matter, Oberlin College, OH, and founder of ALCOA. - Paul
Mark Lyons 20 Sep 2005
#13
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
You are correct sir.....well sort of. According to the info that I was reading, Charles Martin Hall and Paul L. T. Héroult, a French chemist both figured out in 1886, how to extract aluminum from aluminum oxide. They did this independently of each other and at the same time. Hall went on to form the Pittsburgh Reduction Company. That company is now the Aluminum Company of America, or Alcoa. This process reduced the cost of producing aluminum drastically. By 1909, the cost fell to about 60 cents per kilogram. The process that they developed is continued to this day and is used to manufacture virtually all of the aluminum in the world. (This is the guy that should have been my ancestor)

So with all of this, I wonder why aluminum handcuffs are very rare.
To tie this subject back with the purpose of this forum, lets identify all the aluminum/aluminim alloy cuffs that are known to exist. I would like to start with:
1. Lyon Presto
2. Smith & Wesson and Peerless Lite weights
3. American Handcuff Chain and hinged
4. Yuil from South Korea
5. Rare old clejuso darby in my collection. (just the body or tube is alum.)


Anyone know of any others?

m
coldsteelcuffs 20 Sep 2005
#14
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Hiatt also produced and I still believe produces an Aluminum Hinged Handcuff on special order.
Steve Santini 20 Sep 2005
#15
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
It is possible that handcuffs made from this material were not considered to be strong enough (even though they may in fact be) by the people who regularly made use of restraints day to day.

It is also understandable that cuffs made from this metal caught on to some degree only after many years of officers having to tote around heavier restraints.

I do know that many in law enforcement often choose a particular brand of cuff for sometimes illogical reasons that have nothing to do with it's strength, security, etc.

In Halifax I was told by a Police supply firm that local officers resisted buying S&W cuffs because they did not like the "sound" the cuff made when it was ratcheted through. For this reason, and this reason alone, many bought and used Peerless.

Just an example but a valid one.

I once knew a female detective who worked out of 23rd division of the Metro Toronto Police Force and she carried a set of Peerless aluminum cuffs. She did this because they were light.

Many years later I ran into her again and asked about her cuffs. She said the Sergant had made her give them up because he felt they were "not strong enough".

Certainly what is percieved about any given restraint compared to what any given restraint can actually do plays an equal part in what is chosen for duty on many forces.

This may in some way explain why aluminum cuffs just never caught on in some countries.

However, in others, such as France, home of the Rivollier and La Massonette, they did very well indeed.

Steve Santini

stan willis 20 Sep 2005
#16
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Here are a few of the other known Aluminum cuffs:
Wood chain
Hiatts 3103 big guy chain
Hiatts Big Guy folding
Hiatts 3020 Snap-on
Hiatts 3050 Snap-on tri-hinged
Various French cuffs
Kayser
Several german variations
Deutsche Polizei (early flat models)
LaPegy
K&D
Lips
KCH-010 several Kyung Chang models
Halcon Industria Argentina like LaMassenotte
LaMassennotte
Horst moabit
Lapoliciere
Mark Lyons 20 Sep 2005
#17
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Very good response. There are many more cuffs that use aluminum that I could think of when I posted my first response. The British TKS is also aluminum. The DP cuffs are very obvious as they probably contain the most aluminum of any of the other examples.
m
Steve Santini 20 Sep 2005
#18
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Don't forget the Chubb Escort!

Steve Santini
Mark Lyons 20 Sep 2005
#19
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Yes, that is a good one too.
Stan mentioned it under various French cuffs, but the GK line more specifically.
As mentioned, the LA Policiere is but I can't remember if the Bockin is as well.
Wonder if there was an aluminum ball and chain. lol
m
patrick-handboeienfreak 20 Sep 2005
#20
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
hi all


don't fortget the vodo gdr cuffs
stan willis 20 Sep 2005
#21
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
The Bockin is not Aluminum.
Stan
chris65 23 Sep 2005
#22
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
hi mark and fellow collectors, now i don't want to harp on about this or start any unpleasantness, we've had enough of that before on this very informative site, but, for those who may be interested please check out world-aluminium.org, and make your own minds up, again i must stress my earlier comments were in fun, yes we do speak/spell differently mark, please dont take me for a spelling freak!...lol..thanks, chris.
Ian McColl 23 Sep 2005
#23
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
In a Star trek movie they had transparent aluminium. (LOL)bet that one is not at the website.

Ian
Mark Lyons 23 Sep 2005
#24
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
Chris,
All of this should be fun. I sure enjoy my time here!
The website given does seem to indicate a British discovery of aluminum. It looks as Sir Humphry Davy knew of its existance but it was Hans Christian Oersted who first laid his hands on it. Perhaps you are right, it should be aluminium. Just one thing though, they were able to produce tons of it....not tonnes.
m
chris65 24 Sep 2005
#25
Dear fellow collectors,

do any of you know these antique handcuffs? I don´t know their name, I thing they (or something like they) were offered one or two months ago on e-bay, several very rare pieces were sold with them...

Any info is welcomed

Josef
Czech Republic

Click to expand...
hi mark, wowzers, for a back yard like yours i would spell anything anyway you liked!...great picture, enjoy your trip petra and atame, is alcatraz on your "to do" list? ttfn.c.